John Calvin believes it is all the woman's fault: Equal, But P/6

Read Part One HERE

In this post I will focus on the Protestant Reformer John Calvin. He lived from 1509 - 1564. 

His comment on 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is as follows:

"Let a woman learn in silence with all subjection."

"Let a woman learn in quietness. Paul first bids them to learn quietly; for quietness means silence, that they may not take it upon them to speak in public. This he immediately explains more clearly, by forbidding them to teach."

"But I suffer not a woman to teach."

"Not that Paul takes from them the charge of instruction their family, but only excludes them from the office of teaching, which God has committed to men only."

"Paul adds - what is closely allied to the office of teaching -"

  "and not to assume authority over the man."

"For the very reason, why they are forbidden to teach, is, that it is not permitted by their condition. They are subject, and to teach implies the rank of power and authority. Yet it may be thought that there is no great force in this argument; because even prophets and teachers are subjects to kings and other magistrates.I reply, there is no absurdity in the same person commanding and likewise obeying, when viewed in different relations. But this does not apply to the woman, who by nature (that is by the ordinary law of God) is formed to obey; for the government of women has always been regarded by all wise persons as a monstrous thing; and, therefore, so to speak, it will be a mingling of heaven and earth, if women usurp the right to teach. Accordingly, he bids them be "quiet," that is, keep within their own rank."

"For Adam was first created."

"Paul assigns two reasons why women ought to be subject to men; because not only did God enact this law at the beginning, but He also inflicted it as a punishment on the women (Genesis 3:16). Paul, accordingly shows that, although, mankind had stood in their first and original uprightness, the true order of nature, which proceeded from the command of God, bears that women shall be subject. Nor is this inconsistent with the fact, that Adam, by falling from his first dignity, deprived himself of his authority, for in the ruins, which followed sin, there still linger some remains of the divine blessings, and it was not proper that woman, by her own fault, should make her condition better than before."

"Now Moses, shows that the woman was created afterwards, in order that she should be at hand to render obedience to him (Genesis 2:21). Since, therefore, God did not create two chiefs of equal power, but added to the man an inferior aid, the apostle justly reminds us of that order of creation in which the eternal and inviolable appointment of God is strikingly displayed."

"And Adam was not deceived...."

"Paul alluded to the punishment inflicted on the woman"

"Because thou hast obeyed the voice of the serpent, thou shall be subject to the authority of thy husband, and thy desire shall be to him (Genesis 3:16)."

"Because the woman had given fatal advice (Genesis 3:6), it was right that she should learn she was under the power and will of another; and because she had drawn her husband aside from the command of God, it was right that she should be deprived of all liberty and placed under a yoke. Besides, the apostle does not rest his argument entirely or absolutely on the cause of the transgression but founds it on the sentence which was pronounced by God."

"Nevertheless, she shall be saved in childbearing."

"Whatever hypocrites or wise men of the world may think,  God is better pleased with a woman who considers the condition God has assigned to her as a calling and submits to it, not refusing to bear the distaste of (cooking) food, the illness, the difficulty, or rather the fearful anguish associated with childbirth or anything else that is her duty - God is better pleased with her than if she were to make some great display of heroic virtues and refuse to accept the vocation given her by God."

 

Read Part Seven HERE

John R. Rice's daughhter believes any husband is like God: Equal, BUT P/5

Read Part One HERE

Here is my second post on Dr John R. Rice. He and his wife were the parents of six daughters.

One of their daughters was named Jimmie Elizabeth. She has made the following comment:

"Women are more often led into spiritual error than men. That is the reason God commanded her not to usurp authority over man, so she can be protected by him, from false doctrine.... The Scriptures says a woman must ignore her feelings about the will of God and do what her husband says. She is to obey her husband as if he were God Himself. She can be as certain of God's will, when her husband speaks, as if God had spoken from heaven."

Dr John Rice has written the book; "Bobbed hair, bossy wives and women preachers."

Molly T. Marshall, has written the following in relation to the above book.

"Ï was a Master of Divinity Student at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary from 1973 to 1975. As regularly occurred with women students, I had been admitted to the School of Religious Education. Yet, I enrolled in all M.Div. courses because I had some burning theological questions."

"I then had to talk my way into the School of Theology with the Dean of the RE School. He was not easy to persuade; however he approved the transfer. I was one of only a handful of women, even though in the early '70s mainly seminaries were beginning to welcome many women."

"One day I was in the library looking for resources to assist in my quest to learn about what the Bible really teaches about the role of women in ministry. I stumbled across a nefarious concoction of an over-achieving fundamentalist, John R. Rice. I was incensed at the title: Bobbed hair, Bossy Wives and Women Preachers. Of course, I had experienced gender discrimination all my life as a Southern Baptist - at my home church, in college, in churches I had served as youth minister - but the sheer contempt of this book startled me."

"In his book Rice asked three questions:
1. Is is a sin for women to cut their hair? Answer: Yes.
2. Must a wife be subject to, obedient to her husband, ruled by him? The Answer: Yes.
3. Does God ever call or consent for women to be preachers, pastors or evangelists? The Answer: No."

"So where do we find ourselves now less than 75 years since the re-printing of Rice's signature volume? It depends upon which Baptist pathway you have followed, of course, yet the patriarchal bias of national and ecclesial culture remains deeply entrenched."

"We continue to hear new forms of Rice's arguments, clothed now in the dress of the "dignity of women." We hear the male projections of how an attractive female pastor would simply be a distraction in the pulpit; how an ungainly pregnancy would be awkward when doing sacramental things like baptising; how women's voices do not sound authoritative etc etc."

"The unwavering accent on the submission of women results in a tacit understanding of fundamental inequality between male and female. Rice argued that as God is to Christ, so is the man to the woman. This not only underscores the eternal subordination of women but is heretical in Trinitarian construction."

"I have engaged an old text, yet its arguments are still around. The fear of strong women remains a toxic part of Baptist culture and the wider social landscape. We still have much work to do. It is time to sharpen our hermeneutical skills and forthrightly  confront the lingering misogyny among those of Rice's ilk. He has many kin."

 

Read Part Six HERE

John R.Rice believes women are an easy target for the devil: Equal, BUT P/4

Read Part One HERE
                                                     

In this post and in the next post I will focus on Dr John R. Rice, an Baptist Evangelist who lived from 1895 - 1980.

He has said the following:

"God made Adam first. Eve was made second and as his helpmeet subject to him. For that reason, says Paul, women are not to teach men in the church, are not to be chief officers in the church nor to have authority over men. For women to take such authority is not properly and naturally theirs. From the creation, 1 Timothy 2:11-15 says, women are to take the place of subjection, because they were not created to have authority over men to teach men."

"And again Paul says that the weakness of a woman and her aptness to be misled is shown because Ädam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." Satan found he could deceive Ever easier that he could deceive Adam. God made women after such a  fashion that she should be a comfortable and obedient helpmeet, a mate who would fit in to his will and plans, So, in the nature of the case, women are not as well fitted for executive authority. If women are more easily led, they are not as good leaders. Every pastor knows that women are easier to enlist in good work. But careful observers must admit that women are also easier led into false doctrines and into errors of various kinds. But the argument here in 1 Timothy 2:14 is that Satan was able to deceive Eve when he could not deceive Adam and that this is evidence that women should not be placed in authority in churches and in Christian work. If he could deceive Eve easier in the Garden of Eden, he could deceive women easier now. This means that women leaders are more likely to lead into heresy in doctrine and unscriptural practice than men. Women are not fitted to teach men or usurp authority over men, says 1 Timothy 2:14. But also, in 1 Timothy 2:15, God has a special duty and privilege for women in childbearing. If they submit themselves to God's plan in humility and meekness , then they shall be rescued and preserved, when pangs of childbirth are come upon them. Many godly women have found sweet comfort and ease and help in the time when they go down into the valley of the shadows to bring forth a child for the Lord, receiving help from God because they were willing to take a woman's place in submission."

 

Read Part Five HERE

John Piper believes a husband should be allowed to hit his wife at least for one night: Equal, BUT Part/3

 

 

             

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Read Part One HERE

In this post I will focus on the view of John Piper, Chancellor of Bethlehem College and Seminary, Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA.

He has made the following statements

"So when God created man and woman He made us the way we are - with the differences of manhood and womanhood - so that we would be suited for these complementary roles (and for other complementarity outside marriage) In this drama man was meant to play the role of Christ, and the woman was meant to play the role of his Bride the Church."

"These differences are not the result of sin.... Before sin even entered the world God ordained and fitted Adam to be a loving, caring, strong leader for his wife Eve. And before sin entered the world God ordained and fitted Eve to be a partner who supports and honours that leadership and helps carry it through."

John Piper has stated the following on the role of women as pastors/leaders in churches based on his understanding of I Timothy 2:13,14

"The two arguments for not permitting a woman to have authority over men are:
1. The order of creation (man first, woman second) implies a unique leadership role for man.
2. The neglect of this divine pattern leads to transgression."

"Therefore, Paul's prohibition of women exercising an authoritative teaching office in the church has abiding validity today, because it is based not on culturally relative conditions but on the order of creation and the lessons that come from repudiation of that order."

John Piper's response to the question "What should a wife's submission to her husband look like if he is an abuser?" is as follows:

"If the abusing husband is simply hurting her, then she should endure verbal abuse for a season and endure perhaps being smacked one night before seeking help from the church."

 

Read Part Four HERE

Professor Wayne A.Grudem says women are in danger of losing God's blessing: Equal, BUT P/2

                                                     

                                                     

                                                      

                                                     

                                                       

                                             http://ministryto-silencedwomen.com         Read Part One HERE

 In this post I will focus on the view of Professor Wayne A. Grudem. He is research professor of Theology and Biblical Studies at Phoenix Seminary, Arizona, USA.

He has made the following statements:

"Eve was created for Adam, not Adam for Eve. Genesis 2:18 God says, "It is not for the for the man to be alone; I will make a helper fit for him." So God is making Eve as a helper fit for him."

"In Genesis 3:16c God says to the woman, ".....Your desire shall be for your husband...." The word "desire" here, which God gave as a punishment, is not a sexual desire, but is an aggressive and hostile desire to compete for leadership and to resist Adam's leadership."

"According to Genesis 3:16d  God says to the woman, "And he shall rule over you." Adam is going to rule over Eve, but to rule by virtue that he is stronger. Before the Fall, Adam and Eve had a relationship that was beautiful, harmonious, loving and kind, and yet there was a leadership role that Adam had that Eve did not have. Eve was supporting and helping that leadership role."

Professor Grudem has furthermore stated:

"I think that a women who serves as a pastor, preaching to both men and women, is disobeying the word of God. There are always negative consequences to that. First, there will be an erosion of trust in the Bible, and obedience to the Bible, generally in the congregation, because the methods of interpretation used to justify what she is doing often involves misinterpretation of Scripture or eroding of the authority of Scripture."

"Also, there will be an erosion of male leadership in the family because of the modeling of female leadership in the pastorate will be reflected in a lessening of male leadership in the home. There will be a resulting increase in gender confusion among boys and girls growing up in the church. I think also that anyone who lives in a pattern of constant disobedience to the word of God-  if a woman does this, she is opening herself up to the danger of withdrawal of God's hand of protection and blessing on her life."

 

Read Part Three HERE

John MacArthur says women are equal but not really: Equal, BUT P/1

http://ministryto-silencedwomen.com

I will begin a series of posts sharing with you the view of influential men on the role of men and women throughout history starting with well-known Pastor and Author John MacArthur, Pastor of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, USA.

He has stated the following:

Even though there is a spiritual equality, and even though there is an essential quality, that is in terms of essence of person hood, there is a difference in roles that God has divinely assigned to men and women. And God is careful to maintain this difference and this distinction both in the church and in the home, and in society in general.

And I believe that we need to abide by these principles. We do not conceive of women as anything less then men; quite the contrary. Women are, in every sense, equal to men. In every sense, there is equality there, EXCEPT in the area of assignment of a role or duty within the framework of society.

And I feel too, that when we put women in responsibilities, or when women usurp responsibilities meant for men, they thus misuse their divine design and forfeit the use of their highest capacity.

But what we must maintain in this is that there is equality but difference in the assignment which God has given to a man and a woman. Each is vitally important. Authority can't function without submission and submission can't function without authority. They are mutually dependent.

Now such a doctrine as this doctrine of authority and submission - men are in authority and women are in submission in general - is not a confining thing for women, but rather is designed by God to accommodate the makeup of women, which God Himself has created.

A man is the highest manifestation of God in the earth. Why? Because man has been given divine dominion. Man has been given divine dominion in the world. In Genesis 1:26 we read, "And God said,"Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, and let THEM rule over the fist of the sea, of the fowl of the air, the cattle, over all the earth, over every creepy thing that creeps upon the earth. So God man in His own image; in the image of God He created him. Male and female He created THEM.

Now God created man initially to rule over everything in this world. He gave him dominion. Man is king of the earth. Throughout the history of mankind, men have ruled the world. They have run the governments; they have run the businesses; they have run the economics; they have run the social aspects. Men have the been the ones in charge because God originally invested within them dominion. Man then becomes - And I don't mean generic man; I mean sexually male man, just the maleness of man - that man from the sexual viewpoint has been given the dominion of God. Man is sovereign in the world. He is the delegated authority and majesty of God.

 

Read Part Two HERE

Abuse: SBC P/8

                                                            Read Part One HERE

I have been sharing a number of posts with you on the subject of abuse in the Southern Baptist churches in the US. From these posts you have learned that abuse has been taken place for a number of years.

Southern Baptists still cling to the traditional belief that God is the author of an authoritative male headship in ministry and marriage. They believe that women must be under the authority of male pastors in churches and wives must be under the authority of husbands in families as we can see from the following statements:

"On Ordination and the Role of Women in Ministry.
Women are excluded from pastoral functions and leadership roles entailing ordination in order to preserve a submission God requires because the man was first in creation and the woman was first in the Edenic Fall (I Timothy 2:13ff.)"

And

"A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ."

Do you believe that this system of patriarchy opens the door for abuse of women? Please feel free to write a comment. You can do so by clicking on the link at the bottom of your email that leads to my blog Praying and Prophesying.

In my next posts I will share with you the views of influential men on the role of men and women throughout the centuries.

Abuse: SBC P/7

                                                            Read Part One HERE

Here is my second post on Paige Patterson.

Patterson has attracted interest because of his stance on the role of women in church and his opposition to ordaining women as ministers. According to Patterson, "the highest and noblest calling of God" for women is that of "mother and grandmother." Additionally, Patterson's interpretation of the Bible includes "an assignment from God, in this case that a woman not be involved in a teaching or ruling capacity over men."

Patterson has compared female submissiveness to submissiveness to a police officer. Although the police officer and Patterson would be equal before God, "He is above me," Patterson wrote. Just as "God gave him an assignment that affects me and made him a minister of God to correct my evil ways," so he believed women should submit to men."

Patterson has never recommended or prescribed divorce. Instead he has recommended temporary separation in cases of extreme spousal abuse.

In 2000 Patterson's advise to an abused woman was for her to pray every night for her husband after he had gone to sleep even though that may well cause her to be abused more. This was indeed the case with this woman for she came to church the next Sunday with two black eyes. Patterson decided that was ok, since, in her case, her husband came to church to say he was sorry for what he had done....

Patterson has suggested the following in a sermon in 2013
 "Women who have a problem in their home should not bring the case to a judge because it could get in the way of that judge becoming a Christian. Settle it within the church of God. And if you suffer for it, and if you were misused and if you were abused, and if you are not represented properly, it's ok. You can trust it to God who judges justly."

He then prayed, "Lord, may we make up our minds that we won't take our troubles to the press, we won't take our troubles to the government, we won't take our troubles anywhere except to the people of God and beyond that to the Lord Jesus."

 

My Comment

Dr Patterson's suggestions are unbiblical and put women in danger of extreme harm. They should be avoided.

 

Read Part Eight HERE