Natalie points out Debi Pearl's book is dangerous: Helpmeet P/2

                                        Read Part One HERE

In this post I will share Natalie Hoffman's comment on the book by Debi Pearl "Created To Be His Help Meet."

Part of Natalie's comment is as follows:

One of the most destructive books for Christian women on the market is "Created to be His Help Meet" by Debi Pearl.

If you boiled her message down to a strong, concentrated poison, it would be this: "Women, the purpose of your existence is to make a man happy. If he isn't happy, it's all your fault, and God's not happy with you. Do what it takes. Bow and scrape. Obey no matter what. Be a slut for him, if that's what turns him on. If he is into porn, you're not doing your job. He doesn't like your hair? Change it. He wants you to have long fingernails? Grow them. If he can't pay the rent or if he lets the house go, then get off your butt and do something yourself to pay the rent and keep up with the house. But you make that man happy. Happy. Happy."

But what happens when a woman can't make her husband happy? What happens when no matter what she does or how hard she tries, he finds fault?What happens when she gets sick and can't make the rent for her lazy man's happiness? What happens if her husband is a broken person with a personality disorder? What happens if he is addicted to drugs, food, porn, work or alcohol? She's supposed to become co-dependent, like he is? That's God's purpose for her life? That's how she will bring life and healing to her husband and children? That's how she will help them and herself be free to become all that God made them to be?

And we women continue to pass on these destructive messages, tied up with pretty little bows to our sister and our daughters. Satan hates both men and women. He wants to destroy both sexes and will use lies to do that. He'll try to get men to despise, control, and use women. He'll try to get women to despise, control and use men. There are two ways to fall off this horse.

We believe a lie if we think that a married women's husband is the equivalent of God to her. God let's her know what He (God) wants when her husbands lets her know what he (the husband) wants? Sorry, but that's man-worship, plain and simple. Woeshipping a man is not spiritual or healthy. It's sick and stupid. So is worshipping a woman. Or worshipping yourself, for that matter.

What solves the problem? What keeps us in the saddle on this one?

Taking down the idols and exalting the True God. Remember - there is only One Mediator between God and every single human on the planet, including every FEMALE human. And that's Jesus Christ. Women get their mail from HIM directly.

 

Read Part Three HERE

Debi Pearl believes God approves of her teaching: His Helpmeet P/1

                                       

In this post I will begin to focus on a book by Debi Pearl "Created To Be His Help Meet."

The above book has been highly recommended by bible teacher Lori Alexander as follows:

"This is the best book my husband has never read! it radically changed my life and marriage and it does the same for most of the women I have given it to in the past eight years, more than any other book on marriage.
This is why I want to defend this book. The Pearls don't need me to defend them because God is their defender. However, I want to give my puny voice to their defense anyways." 


My Comment:

I am not sure if you are familiar with Debi and Michael Pearl. I had never heard of them until very recently. They are part of the fundamental, homeschooling circles in America whose views are in line with the teachings of people such as Bill Gothard, Doug Wilson and Doug Philips. I will share other less favourable comments on Debi Pearl's book in the next few posts.

P.S. We will eventually have a closer look at the three men I mentioned. 

 

Read Part Two HERE

Lori does not believe women can pray when at church: Biblical Manhood and Womanhood P/17

                                                      Read Part One HERE

Having shared my conversation with bible teacher Lori Alexander with you, I will now share a little from an article I found on her website titled: Women Praying and Prophesying.

In this article Lori has written as follows:

Many people today believe that women can pray and prophesy in the churches. Does the Bible actually say that women can do this? Let's look at I Corinthians 11 which teaches about headcoverings. We are told that the head of the woman is the man and that "every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head." Is this referring to a woman's activity in a church service? Does this mean that women can pray and prophesy in the church?

I can't see anything in this chapter that states that this can happen during the church service. The entire book of I Corinthians is written to a very messed up church but the Apostle Paul isn't giving instructions throughout the entire letter about how the church service should run. No, he is given instructions mostly on how those who call themselves believers in Jesus Christ, ought to behave themselves.

At the end of chapter 9, he (Paul) is encouraging believers to be temperate in all things and discipline their bodies. In chapter 10, he warns them against idolatry, fornication, lusting after evil things, murmuring and that whatever they do, they do all for the glory of God. Then he goes into chapter 11 about headcoverings, women being the glory of man, and long hair being their covering. In the verse I mentioned earlier (every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered, dishonoureth her head), it makes no mention of this happening in a church gathering.


My Comment

Lori's comment makes no sense since she is trying to say that women can only do their praying and prophesying in private. Now women as well as men may well and should pray in private besides it being done in public in a church gathering. However, prophesying is not done in private but is done in public in a church gathering since it is a speaking gift to be used for other believers.

 No doubt, Lori will have no problem teaching that men can pray and prophesy in a church gathering according to I Corinthians 11:4. However, if she teaches that men can pray and prophesy in a church gathering then she should teach that, likewise, women can pray and prophesy in a church gathering. You cannot teach that men can pray and prophesy in a church gathering and then deny that women can pray and prophesy in a church gathering since they are mentioned in I Corinthians 11:5, which is the verse that follows on from I Corinthians 11:4.

It will be helpful as well to remember that this letter was written to address issues mentioned in a letter Paul had received from a house church in Corinth led by an female overseer named Chloe
as we can read in I Corinthians 1:11
My brothers, some from CHLOE'S HOUSEHOLD have informed me that there are quarrels among you.

CHLOE'S HOUSEHOLD, very likely, refers to a house church led by CHLOE, a FEMALE overseer. Paul obviously knew about Chloe and the house church that she was overseeing but there is never any mention of him disciplining her by telling her to step down from her role as overseer of this house church since, as a woman, she could not function in this way. All he did in his letter was dealing with certain issues he had become aware of through members of her church.
It is clear that Paul had no problems with this house church being led by a female overseer. He, therefore, would not have had problems with women praying and prophesying during their public gatherings.

Lori refuses to consider how 1 Timothy 2:11-15 should be interpreted: Biblical Manhood and Womanhood P/16

                                                      Read Part One HERE

In this post I will share with you my final message to bible teacher Lori Alexander related to I Timothy 2:11-15 and in particular verse 15

I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
But women will be SAVED through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

 My message was as follows:


Dear Lori,

I noticed you have stopped engaging with me in our online conversation about I Timothy 2:11-15, and in particular my confusion about verse 15. Perhaps you have stopped engaging with me because you believe me to be a liberal feminist. Let me assure you, I am not. You can find details about me on my website www.ministryto-silencedwomen.com

I believe you to be a God-fearing woman who loves the Lord and wants to teach His Word to His children. I want to do so as well. You and I both know that one day we will stand before the Lord and He will make us accountable for the things we have done in our lives. Of course, you want to hear from the Lord these words: "Well done, good and faithful servant." And so do I. It is for that reason that I am writing this message to you for I want that very much for you.

That is why I am asking you to not completely dismiss my conversation with you but to stop for a moment and to be willing to consider that perhaps you have applied another method to understand very 15 compared to understanding verses 12, 13 and 14. If that is so, then I would like for you to ask yourself the next question which is, "If I cannot be consistent in my understanding of these verses since I have to apply a different interpretation method to verse 15, is it possible that I need to do some further study on verses 12, 13 and 14 (In fact verse 11 should  be included since it is part of this particular section of Scripture) to come to a correct understanding of this passage?

I appreciate your willingness to at least give an explanation for 1 Timothy 2:11-15 since Professor Wayne A. Grudem leaves that last verse out when teaching on I Timothy 2:11-15 because he comments only on I Timothy 2:11-14. This is, no doubt, because he knows that he cannot apply the literal interpretation method to verse 15 but only to verses 11, 12, 13 and 14. In his case, he conveniently leaves verse 15 out altogether. However, it is in Scripture so it needs to be taken into account. You have done that and I thank you for your willingness to do so. I would now like to ask you to prayerfully ask the Lord if you need to give more time to this passage for its understanding. Many women have been told they cannot minister in the way they sense the Lord is calling them and Lori, you can make a difference to these women by helping them be set free to follow the Lord's leading in their lives. May God bless you in all that you do for him."

Loes Tam
www.ministryto-silencedwomen.com/the-woman-restricted-for-a-season

P.S. Lori has not come back to me and I do not expect her to do so.

 

Read Part 17 HERE

Lori has nothing more to say: Biblical Manhood and Womanhood P/15

                                                      Read Part One HERE

In this post I will share another message I sent to bible teacher Lori Alexander in relation to my questions on 1 Timothy 2:11-15 and in particular verse 15

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the women who was deceived and became a sinner.
But women will be SAVED through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

My message was along the following lines:

Thank you for one of your previous responses to my questions, Lori in which you said you believe verse 15 means that childbearing is God's role for women. I did send you a new message you have not responded to which was along the following lines:

Dear Lori, 
Do you agree with me that you may be applying the literal interpretation method in order to understand verses 12, 13 and 14 but that you seem to apply a different interpretation method in order to understand verse 15? Thank you so much for patiently answering my questions in relation to this passage.

P.S. I  have not asked the Lori what advise she gives to women who are either not married or are married but do not have children since she believes that God has commanded women to be keepers at home and raise children. However, I did send her a final message which I will share with you in my next post.

 

Read Part sixteen HERE

 

To Lori God's command is for women to suffer in childbirth: Biblical Manhood and Womanhood P/14

                                                      Read Part One HERE

In this post I will continue to share my online conversation with bible teacher Lori Alexander on 1 Timothy 2:11-15, in particular 1 Timothy 2:15
But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

In my previous post I shared Lori's comment on verse 15 as follows:

This means that childbearing is God's role for women. This is where they will learn more about Christ and being a servant than anywhere else. They will learn about suffering and sacrifice. It's God's perfect will for women.

My answer to her comment was as follows:

Thanks, Lori, for your response to my question. Your answer makes sense but I would like to know how you came to that understanding since it is not clear from the text itself, which as you will remember states, "But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."

Lori's responded as follows:

We must take the whole of Scripture. We know, without a doubt, that one is saved by believing in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross. That's it. But our works prove what we believe. If we continue living in sin after we say we believe, it is doubtful that we are saved. God has commanded women to be keepers at home and raise children. This is His will for them so through their belief in Him, they should desire to want to obey Him.

In my next post I will share my follow up conversation with Lori, which sadly was only from my side since so far Lori has not responded to the next two online messages I sent her.

 

Read Part Fifteen HERE

To Lori 1 Timothy 2:15 is about women's suffering: Biblical Manhood and Womanhood P/13

                                                     Read Part One HERE

For a long time I have wanted to have a conversation with someone who has a similar view on 1 Timothy 2:11-15 as Professor Wayne A. Grudem but who, unlike Professor Grudem, does include verse 15 when interpreting this passage. However, I never managed to have such a conversation.... until the other day....

In this post I will begin to share my online conversation with a bible teacher Lori Alexander, whom I realised has a similar view on 1 Timothy 2:11-15 as Professor Wayne A. Grudem so I decided to get in touch with her to find out if she would be willing to share with me her view on verse 15.  I did not tell her who I was, nor my view, because I knew that if I did she would, very likely, not answer me. I simply put myself in her shoes and wrote to her in a way that would be acceptable to her in order for her to be willing to engage with me in conversation in the hope that she would share with me her view of verse 15.

I wrote to her as follows:

Dear Lori,

I am a little confused about a certain verse. Perhaps you can help me understand it better. My problem is as follows:
In 1 Timothy 2:12 we read
I (Paul) do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent.
The wording is so clear and cannot possibly be misunderstood: Paul is saying that a woman cannot teach a man.

Likewise verses 13 and 14 are very clear and easy to understand as well as to his reasons why women cannot teach for we read in these verses:
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
The fact that Adam was formed first and the woman second, is the reason for Paul that he does not allow women to teach.

And Adam was not deceived, it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
Moreover, from this verse Paul makes it clear that the fact Eve was deceived is another reason why women cannot teach men.

All three verses are very clear and easy to understand.                                                                          My problem is related to 1 Timothy 2:15 where we read
But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Here Paul is saying that we are saved through childbearing. I find that very confusing because I know that at other places Paul teaches us that we are saved through Christ as we know from Romans 3:23-24. So am I saved through my childbearing or am I saved through Christ?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Blessings,
Loes Tam

Lori's reply was as follows:

This means that childbearing is God's role for women. This is where they will learn more about Christ and being a servant than everywhere else. They will learn about suffering and sacrifice. It's God' perfect will for women.

I will continue my sharing of our online conversation in  the next posts.

 

Read Part Fourteen HERE

Women are daughters of Eve; Biblical Manhood and Womanhood P/12

                                                     Read Part One HERE

In this post I will continue my Comment on Professor Wayne A Grudem's commentary on 1 Timothy 2:11-15. He is a Founding Member of The Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood

1 Timothy 2:11-5 is as follows:
 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
And Adam was not the one deceived, it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
But women will be saved through childbearing -  if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Professor Wayne A. Grudem's commentary on this section of the Scriptures is as follows:
"Should women be Pastors or Elders in the Churches? The single passage in Scripture that addresses this question most directly is 1 Timothy 2:11-4. Here Paul is speaking about the Church when it is assembled. In such a setting, Paul says, "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men." These are the functions that are carried out by elders of the Church..... It is specifically these functions unique to Elders that Paul prohibits for women in the Church. The reason Paul gives this prohibition is the situation of Adam and Eve before the Fall and before there was any sin in the world, and the way in which a reversal in male and female roles occurred at the time of the Fall... So Paul used the fact that "Adam was formed first, then Eve," as a reason for restricting some governing and teaching roles in the Church to men."


My Comment (continued from the previous post):

Professor Wayne A. Grudem's commentary is only based on 1 Timothy 11-14. He has not included verse 15
But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in love, faith and holiness with propriety.
This is very likely because he uses the literal interpretation method to understand this passage and he knows that he cannot apply this method to verse 15. Unfortunately, this has not made Wayne Grudem consider that verses 11-14 may need to be interpreted differently.
This becomes even more clear when we consider that Paul taught all believers, male and female, are new Creations in Christ as we know from 2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new Creation; the old has passed away, the new has come.
This means that Paul would never takes us back to the first Creation and certainly not to the Fall to live out of for he would always see every believer as a new Creation in Christ!!

Read Part Thirteen HERE

Women are not allowed to lead: Biblical Manhood and Womanhood P/11

                                                       Read Part One HERE

 In this post I will focus on Professor Wayne A. Grudem's commentary on 1 Timothy 2:11-15. He is one of the Founding Members of The Council On Biblical Manhood and Womanhood.


1 Timothy 2:11-15 is as follows:
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

His commentary on this passage is as follows:

Should women be Pastors or Elders in the Churches? The single passage in Scripture that addresses this question most directly is 1 Timothy 2:11-14. Here Paul is speaking about the Church when it is assembled. In such a setting, Paul says, "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men." These are the functions that are carried out by Elders of the Church.... It is specifically these functions unique to Elders that Paul prohibits for women in the Church. The reason Paul gives this prohibition is the situation of Adam and Eve before the Fall and before there was any sin in the world and the way in which a reversal in male and female roles occurred at the time of the Fall.... So Paul used the fact that "Adam was formed first, then Eve," as a reason for restricting some distinct governing and teaching roles in the Church to men."


"My Comment:
I will share my Comment on the above commentary over two posts, this post and the following post.

Let me begin by stating the following:
We can first of all see that Wayne A. Grudem misunderstands the responsibility God has given to the man at Creation since he implies that God had given the man authority over the woman at that time. However, that is contrary to Scripture for we read in Genesis 1:27-28
So God created man in His image, in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them and said to them," Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
From these verses we learn that God gave the man only authority over creation. Moreover, God gave that same authority to the woman since they were to rule creation together. Secondly, we know from a correct translation of Genesis 3:16c that the woman did not try and take this supposed authority away from the man at the time of the Fall but that she turned to the man instead of turning to God to have her needs met for we know that the correct translation of the sentence "your desire is for your husband" is "you will turn towards your husband."

I will continue my Comment on Professor Wayne A. Grudem's statement in the next post.

 

Read Part Twelve HERE